Mental Health During the Holidays: Strategies for Overcoming Your Seasonal Triggers | EP 17

Are the Holidays Really the Most Wonderful Time of the Year?

If you're grappling with feelings of inadequacy, loneliness, or isolation during this time of the year, you are not alone.

Join Dr. Stephanos Ioannou and Hélène Ioannides as they delve into the often unspoken complexities of mental health during the holidays. This isn't just another festive talk; it's a deep dive into the highs and lows that accompany this season, exploring why this time can be as challenging as it is cheerful.

The hosts insightfully discuss how family gatherings can be both a source of happiness and a trigger for unresolved issues. They dive into the roles we play within our families and how these roles influence our interactions and internal conflicts during holiday gatherings.

Chapters:

04:58 - Navigating Family Pressures

09:42 - Societal Expectations

15:05 - Old Wounds Resurface

22:45 - Gaining Control Amidst Holiday Chaos

26:18 - Transforming Negative Christmas Memories

28:54 - Miracles and Rethinking the Santa Myth

32:47 - Embracing Growth and Change

34:17 - Shifting Focus Away From Materialism

At the core of their discussion is the need to redefine what the holidays mean on a personal level. Dr. Ioannou and Hélène challenge the status quo, offering guidance on setting boundaries, practicing self-care, and finding joy in simpler, more meaningful holiday traditions.

This is your invitation to step away from societal expectations and find a personal connection to the season. Dr. Ioannou and Hélène urge you to prioritize genuine connections and transform your holiday experience into something more fulfilling and less burdensome.

Press play to uncover more insightful strategies for managing holiday stresses,

It might just change the way you view and experience the holiday season.

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Transcript

 Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

It's the most expensive

Hélène Ioannides:

time of the year.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Hi, guys. Welcome yet to another episode of Health Pod. And we're here today to discuss about mental health During the holidays, I think that this is something that we have all experienced, and it is a very interesting topic because if you truly delve deeper here. Into what is causing us this ups and downs during holidays, you will understand definitely a lot more about yourself. Helene. Hello. Hello. Hello.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Welcome, my love.

Hélène Ioannides:

Welcome back. We've had a little little break from, getting on here and chatting, and I'm happy that we're back. Yes. Back fresh, brand new.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

I love this variety in our life that we do the podcast, and also we have our own personal clients and, I want 1 coaching our community which is growing more and more, and I can only imagine what is gonna happen in couple of months with our community and the way it's growing. Yeah. The feedback that we're getting from people, it's so heartwarming. But let's go Into

Hélène Ioannides:

that topic?

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Hard topic because this is why people have tuned in on today's episode. So, you were telling me about some stats.

Hélène Ioannides:

Yes. So This episode really is about us understanding where we are at with our mental health during the Holidays. I mean, there's a lot of us that me, myself, I love Christmas, and I love the holidays, and I love the festive season, and I love what they mean and how The family comes together, and it it just for me, it brings a lot of happiness, but I know that there are so many people out there that suffer during this time. And this is really just to create space for those people to know that they're not alone and what we can do to improve the issues as well as the depressive symptoms that may come up during the holidays. So a couple of the stats That are really interesting is that in December, we have the highest suicide rates. And in January, we have the highest divorce rates. So, therefore, People spend a lot of time reflecting either what the whole year has brought to them, what they've done, what they've achieved, how they spent it. And perhaps there are a lot of people that don't have the family structures around them that they wish that they had in order to feel happiness, Whole

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

During the holidays.

Hélène Ioannides:

During the holidays.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

So there is a lot of pressure being on individuals during the holidays. Mhmm. And I hear what you say. I hear loneliness. I hear love. And And holidays is all about family. Right? You you're never alone. What if you do not have a family? What if you are alone?

Hélène Ioannides:

Mhmm.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

You do not do not have a partner. So this puts so much pressure on individuals to to climb to that expectation of society and the adverts revolve around that. People baking cookies together. I don't know. People having dinners together. What if you're somewhere abroad alone and we've been there and you don't have a family around you Mhmm. Then that's definitely not holidays for you. That's another ordinary day with your family

Hélène Ioannides:

Or alone.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Or alone. And there is this overinflated expectations on how holidays should be like Yeah. That makes us feel depressed. And definitely, there are 2 things that people are afraid the most in their life. 1 is loneliness, And the other one is death. So if holiday if any holiday basically is an excuse for me to see that, oh, no. I'm lonely. Then this brings you to the realization that you're sad.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

You cannot meet the expectation because you're lonely, so you do not deserve to be happy. But what if we could change These things are out.

Hélène Ioannides:

Absolutely. Definitely lots to unpack right there. And talking about people that don't have the family structures that they wish they had, The ads, the expectations of what you should be spending on during Christmas, which has been such a Overhyped, overinflated way of celebrating the holidays, that it puts so much pressure on people, not only mentally, but financially as well. Mhmm. So there are many elements as to how our holidays can in fact have so much pressure around, whether it's financial, whether it's mental, whether it's seasonal. You know? There's a lot of the times, this the weather actually changes during that time, so seasonal affective disorder is something that we also experience. And I think one of the key points when I think of Christmas is family.

Hélène Ioannides:

Some people experience loneliness during the holidays, but a lot of people that I've spoken with and I'm around experience an over Stimulation and overdose of family because they are our biggest triggers.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Family is it is something definitely that makes us see Ourself deeper makes us understand our triggers. And also when we are meeting up with our family during the holidays, we're split between either playing the role of our adult self Mhmm. Or playing the role of the wounded child pretending to be in a family household household that everyone is happy. So This brings a lot into realization because there are a lot of dynamics going on within the family in which we were born into. So we all potentially have this relative that is always reaching out first for the for food or the one that drinks too much and, creates a lot of havoc around them.

Hélène Ioannides:

It talks it says a lot of, truths

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

A lot of truths.

Hélène Ioannides:

That are triggering.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Yes. We have the the quiet person that sits there alone and just It's

Hélène Ioannides:

In their phone.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Or in their phone trying to avoid everyone. And, then you get the the silly guy that is kind of trying to,

Hélène Ioannides:

Get the attention of everyone.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Get the attention of everyone.

Hélène Ioannides:

Make smoothen out the dynamics and the friction and just like be the clown of the family.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Exactly. And and then you have the parents on the other hand that are like, oh, we're such a happy family. And it's like the the walls are,

Hélène Ioannides:

like, they live in a utopia idea.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Down and they lived in this utopia and you're like, Oh, yeah. Mom and dad, we're we're happy family and and and no one is saying speaking their truth.

Hélène Ioannides:

So We play out roles of our childhood when we enter The family

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Yes.

Hélène Ioannides:

Holidays, or we choose to play out the role that we have develops into as adults. And that's where a lot of conflict occurs.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Mhmm.

Hélène Ioannides:

So either it's internal conflict or it's actual conflict within the family.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

I think now thinking of me. Yeah. I find it extremely difficult to be myself around family, and this is is torch torturing for me Because in in one point of view, you're trying not to upset them. Mhmm. You are trying not to Create a climate that is sour and bitter, and you're like, okay. It's just 2, 3 hours of my day. Just let it has but in the process of you doing so, you're not living up to your higher self. You're telling you're telling to yourself You're not this person.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

You're not this person. Live the life that other people want from you. And if you do that constantly with your family and if you're Constantly exposed to your family, and I see this a lot with the clients of mine that still live with their parents, and I understand how difficult it is nowadays to to have your own apartment, you cannot become the highest version of yourself. Become aligned to your truth and be yourself. And holidays is it's putting an additional pressure as you said. It's not only the financial pressure of Giving the best, gifts to your partner, to your kids, taking them out for expensive holidays or to expensive restaurants, And then your bank account you see just slowly dissolving. Mhmm. It's also you playing a role on what society expects from you and what your family expects from you.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

So it's expectation on on top of expectation That brings you into this form of sadness.

Hélène Ioannides:

It sounds like you're tearing yourself apart from all angles.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Mhmm.

Hélène Ioannides:

And with that comes a lot of self destructive thoughts yourself sabotaging yourself. And that's hard. That's hard in itself knowing that Throughout the year, you are in your routine. You have a structure in place that perhaps works for you and that you are truly happy. And then you have this break of the holidays, which brings you to an awareness of, oh, shit. My actual triggers are here.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Hélène Ioannides:

Within the family structure and not where I was living for the past Couple of months or year. Right? And therefore, I'm I'm coming face to face with The things that I actually need to work on. Mhmm. And that's if you have an understanding and awareness of That's

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

It brings it brings things, to the surface. And and, based on what you said, a lot of people are drowning themselves into work

Hélène Ioannides:

Mhmm.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Trying to avoid their reality. And we might be speaking about yeah. Their feelings. And we might be speaking about addictions, but also working too much is an addiction. If you have a an unhealthy relationship with your partner, with your kids, of course, you do not wanna have the the difficult conversation. Of course, you wanna go to the office where you would thrive, and you might be the CEO of Mhmm. And and Yeah. A multimillion dollar company where everyone worships you, but as soon as you go home, No one worships you.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Your kids don't speak to you because you hardly spend any time with them. Your partner is pissed off with you because You have nothing else to offer than just money. So holidays bring to the surface so many layers of your reality that you are trying to avoid that Yep. Makes people feel resentment about this holidays and the expectation that they cannot keep up. And on top of that, the cherry on the cake is also the neurochemistry that comes into play that Because we don't do not have so much sunshine outside

Hélène Ioannides:

Mhmm.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Our circadian rhythm gets out of balance and cortisol is not it's in its highest form, and we exaggerate that either because we stop exercising, Either because we drink too much.

Hélène Ioannides:

Eat too much.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Eat too much. Don't sleep enough. We're not exposing ourselves to the outdoors because we're finding an excuse. Oh, it's cold or it's, raining or it's wet. So we do all these things that are jeopardizing our mental health.

Hélène Ioannides:

Yeah.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

And it's time for that to change. Now Dun dun dun. You have some amazing tips On how can we overcome the holidays blues? The blues of the films.

Hélène Ioannides:

Blues. There's so many tools out there that can bring us back to ourselves and help us really Putting into perspective. 1st of all, coming back to our breath. So a lot of the times when I find myself in difficult family situations, There are 2 parts of me that come out. His 1 is the very reactive Helene. I just say shit as it is, or I choose to go outside and take a deep breath. Yeah. Take a double inhale and just come back to myself and and observe as opposed to react, which can be very beneficial in a way that you don't get caught up in all the drama.

Hélène Ioannides:

Because what happens when we are within our families, It's a structure. It's it's a it's a role playing. It's a dynamic that we have been used to. So as soon as you step into your household or near your family, you go into this little cave, into this dark cave where you grew up in Oh my god. Where all your trauma, where all The discomfort, the resentment, the suppression, the the emotional abuse, physical abuse, Whatever you have been through in your life all comes back to you. So you have a choice in that moment to either step into the cave with everybody I'll stand back and observe them and bring more awareness to The situation as well as the whole system around Christmas, which does have us overspending, buying things that we don't actually need, that don't make us feel happier. In fact, we feel less fulfilled, which exaggerates and highlights The emptiness

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Mhmm.

Hélène Ioannides:

The loneliness Mhmm. Mhmm. The mental health aspects that are, In fact, the areas that we need to be looking at more, but we spend all the year avoiding them.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

So what should people do at that phase when they come into realization of being unhappy?

Hélène Ioannides:

People need to realize that they need to create a system and a structure around them that works for them, most importantly. If you are buying things for people that you don't wanna be buying things for, and that goes against your own belief system, then you need to stop doing that. You need to stop playing the roles that the Mhmm. System, the advertisements, the people around you have been playing, change the game.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

It's very funny. You make me think right now, and I'm gonna share something on my own personal story. Growing up in my family, of course, we We never had anything to complain about. We had everything, really. But we would never really afford the We would my dad would never overstretch and go and buy things that were kind of unnecessary. So I I catch myself now as an adult. I go and buy these very expensive bottles of wine For all the families like, just yeah. Just just have them.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Yes. There's abundance in our life. There is and it it's me trying to relive A childhood in which there were no limitations. In which every everything was within our boundaries. We had access to everything. Now I now understand why my dad used to do that though. Not because we didn't have access to those things, but there were other priorities. Mhmm.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

And I'm thankful to my dad because he realized that This is what's important. The dynamics maybe. Family coming together. Traditions. Traditions. Not really the most expensive. I don't know. Will never hear.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

There we

Hélène Ioannides:

have to say. I like you too.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Yes. This is the most expensive wine, let's say. So but I I feel now as an adult, I it's from one point of view, maybe I'm trying to prove my value to my family. From another point of view, I'm like, Why can't my family have what other families had? And I'm trying to bring that Into my family environment. And it's very strange that you do that. And

Hélène Ioannides:

Isn't it funny how we have

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

so many layers of

Hélène Ioannides:

our unconscious systems, how they they are playing out?

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

They're playing out. Yes.

Hélène Ioannides:

Playing out. And if I remember correctly, you never liked Christmas? You have liked the holidays?

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

I never had liked the holidays be or my birthday because my expectations were not being met as a child. So, my dad Could have been working during that time. So and I've also grew resentful of money because money took away the love of my dad for me and the time of my dad with me as a boy. And even when we used to meet with family, Every family had their own stories. Mhmm. And as a child, I was, sitting and observing. I would observe uncles, my aunties either not respecting parts of My family environment, and I grew Bitter, you know, and angry. You're resentful.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Resentful. I was like, how dare you Disrespect

Hélène Ioannides:

them. Yeah.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

My my family.

Hélène Ioannides:

So had you associated that with the holidays?

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

I never associated that with the holidays Because I was the I was the youngest, and I never really had a voice. But inside of me, there was a fire burning. I wanted to consume everyone, but I would never go to that extent because we're always trying to keep The facade of family Mhmm. Being with family. Mhmm. And so, you know, some

Hélène Ioannides:

Lots of people can relate to that.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Sometimes, you know, You need to stand up and and say speak your truth, and this is family. If your family cannot hold on to your truth, which is your own interpretation that comes with your own, let's say, trauma, Then how do you expect the world to handle it? How do you expect to find the voice inside of you to speak your truth to the world When your family cannot hold your truth.

Hélène Ioannides:

Yeah. Because if we have to play these roles around our family because they don't accept us as they are, Then maybe they're not the right people to be around.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. So whoever might be experiencing These kind of thoughts, I would suggest that they reach out, seek help, therapy Because these are heavy emotions that might be boiling up inside of them. Yeah. And if you find yourself while being with family, just Your shoulders are tensing up. Tenses up. Oh, god. You're trying to shrink.

Hélène Ioannides:

Yeah.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

There's some embarrassment, guilt, or anger that you're trying to hold in.

Hélène Ioannides:

And it needs to be processed.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

And it needs to be processed.

Hélène Ioannides:

Yeah. You do need to look at it. It's not just about you know, it doesn't just come up at Christmas. It's it's just that your triggers come up at Christmas. They're always there.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Mhmm.

Hélène Ioannides:

It just highlights them. It's like, you know, when you live in the jungle and you meditate all day and you have no triggers around you, of course, you're gonna feel enlightened and centered and aligned. When you come back into the world where there are people around you that caused Mhmm. Those wounds, that's where you you're doing the work. That's where you're aware that, hey. This doesn't sit with me. I need to find my center again. And how do I do that? Through talking to the right people, making sure that you are Mhmm.

Hélène Ioannides:

In therapy, speaking to people that can support you and help could even be your friends. It could be friends that actually listen to you, that know how to to, see you, hear you, support you, And also keeping a journal. A journal. So actually journaling out your thoughts and your feelings.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Having an inner dialogue with yourself.

Hélène Ioannides:

Mhmm. Yeah. And coming to, self awareness where that awareness brings you to a more conscious way of living Mhmm. Throughout the holidays.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Yep. Absolutely.

Hélène Ioannides:

So there are people who absolutely hate Christmas that have asked for our tips on how they can navigate this family season. What will your tips be For

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

people who I would say spend more time outdoors. Get a hobby that you love doing doing during Christmas. Say no to the countless of dinners and family gatherings that you're invited to, and you have to play a role. Know where is your threshold

Hélène Ioannides:

Your boundaries.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Your boundaries, with family. Don't overindulge in Drinking. Be also very mindful about what you're drinking because there there are drinks and drinks.

Hélène Ioannides:

Yeah. And also, this is a vessel. This is

Hélène Ioannides:

vessel that, yes, you know, you need to look after. No matter if it's holiday season, it's not it's not a time to actually trash the shit out of your body

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Oh, yeah.

Hélène Ioannides:

Which is what we do left, right, and center, whether it's, you know, Mentally, financially, with family, with,

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

So so imagine if you're having high caloric food with high metabolic value And you also have drinks. You have your temperature rising. You have palpitations. And Even in happy scenarios, you could misinterpret certain signals from your outside and from your external environment as triggers, and you might become confused from something very small by subconsciously reading your temperature rising or your heart

Hélène Ioannides:

Mhmm.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Pumping, and then you might engage in an argument with someone for no real reason. Because your body, due to alcohol, is playing tricks on you.

Hélène Ioannides:

It sounds like we are consciously making all the Wrong choices during the season that is the most festive or the most difficult?

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

It's the happiest time of the year.

Hélène Ioannides:

Happiest time of the year.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

So, I think people that do have this upbringing and this, negative association with Christmas, they need to first bring awareness into what has caused them this form of, dislike And then rewire that dislike with positive, moments as adults. Mhmm. And by doing so, this and by doing this and by doing this also repeatedly, Then they were gonna grow and start loving Christmas, their birthdays, and every holiday that kind of Has this little bit of it of a bitter taste in their mouth.

Hélène Ioannides:

And the last thing that's very important is the boundaries. Yes. Because during this family holidays and the Christmas season, we find ourselves saying yes to everyone else and no to ourselves. Mhmm. And the more you do that, the unhappier you become.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

That's gold.

Hélène Ioannides:

I have a very good question for you Mhmm. Doctor Stefanos. Do we lie to our kids about Santa? Yes or no?

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

I think we should not lie to our kids about Santa.

Hélène Ioannides:

But you do.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

But I do. Yeah. And this may be this might be also what has fucked me up as a child. I suppose that we all have these funny stories about Santa growing up and realizing whether This guy with the red suit existed or not.

Hélène Ioannides:

But Did he creep you out?

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

No. There was someone eating the cookies and, Drinking the milk. So you're like, who is this weird guy that can get into from the chimney into your house.

Hélène Ioannides:

I mean, sounds fucking creepy.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

It's it is creepy. He sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake.

Hélène Ioannides:

Who is pedophile? Here.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

I think what we really want our our kids to believe when it comes to Santa is we want them to believe in miracles.

Hélène Ioannides:

Yeah. Mhmm.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Because we want to believe in miracles. And somewhere along the line, Life has hardened us up to such an extent that we stopped believing in miracles, but miracles are always there in our life. They're happening. They're manifesting in so many different ways, and I think kids need to know the story of Santa. The real story of Santa that was actually a shaman that was giving magic mushrooms to nomadic tribes for them to feel Happier during the heavy winters. But some parents would avoid to say that form of story And about the

Hélène Ioannides:

So maybe

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

the flying raisers.

Hélène Ioannides:

Maybe the way to feel better at Christmas is to just give everyone trumies.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Yes. And there you could see the big guy coming down from the chimney. Right?

Hélène Ioannides:

Or You see everything.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Or a flying reindeer.

Hélène Ioannides:

You see him in In his,

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

That I see sad. Woah. He's real. So We want kids to believe in miracles.

Hélène Ioannides:

It's it's really an opportunity to rethink where you stand with Christmas itself. And is it really buying all the shit that you don't need, Overspending, buying gifts for your kids, or making your kids believe in Santa for them to get gifts. Because my story is I had to believe in him in order to receive gifts. So, therefore, I had to play the role. So it was forced child. It was forced. Santa was he was forced. He was a law in the contract.

Hélène Ioannides:

My asshole. And, yeah, with with that being said, it's it's a way to Make you think and really question. What do you want Christmas to actually represent for you, and how you want your own family structure to support that. And whether you wanna Make your kids believe in Santa or not, or make them think that they need shit that they don't need in order to feel worthy.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Oh, yeah. And happy. Yeah. Mhmm.

Hélène Ioannides:

How has Christmas changed for us since we've become parents?

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

I think it's it became better. Now we focus on our family And what we wanted to experience as children.

Hélène Ioannides:

Gosh. I just realized that everything I wanted during Christmas And everything you wanted during Christmas, we have recreated into our family system. And with that, Like, that's what we we like to do more home cooking

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Mhmm.

Hélène Ioannides:

Where you just go out and buy stuff that we don't need.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

We go on, small trips with the kids.

Hélène Ioannides:

We do a lot more things together, and that that brings us all much Closest together. We also we avoid family too. That's something that we Yeah. I've I consciously do. Like, there's I can't see them 3 days in a row.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Yeah. Thank God our family is are not gonna watch this.

Hélène Ioannides:

They're gonna watch this. Of cost. But, really, you just need to know where your threshold is and how much, you know, you can take of them so that You have enough time and space for yourself. And, yeah, to try and make it as special as you can for for your own children.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

So it's like a life is like a circle. It's like, You know, we got some certain programming from our families around holidays. Then as adults, you process it. You see what you don't like. You make changes. You make changes. You have your own family, and You start looking after yourself, and you start looking after the people that you love, and you try and give them that you might have never got, And then you grow in this process. So holidays are also a fantastic way of Growing as a person of realizing things about yourself and not put just putting them under the carpet.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Mhmm.

Hélène Ioannides:

Yes.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Just just process them. Just yeah. Go through the pain. Go through the tears. Become angry. Become upset But ask the question. From where is this coming from?

Hélène Ioannides:

Mhmm.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

And when you find the source, You can change it.

Hélène Ioannides:

Yeah. I think that's a very good point. So many people end up spending so much time avoiding what they actually need to look at. We actually forget the importance of community.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Which is the most important.

Hélène Ioannides:

Of love, of unity, of compassion.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Of giving. Of giving. Maybe during the holidays, people, instead of buying gifts that they don't need, they should Help people in actually need. Mhmm. And if we want to change Our children's programming around Christmas and with this over consuming culture that is a never ending vicious cycle, Maybe we should stop buying gifts for ourselves during Christmas and actually tell our kids, you know what? I don't need gifts during Christmas. I have my family. I have my health. I have my home Because these are the things that are actual gifts, not material things that you have so many of.

Hélène Ioannides:

Yeah. And that's a really good, point right there to mention that instead of Buying things, choose to give things.

Dr. Stephanos Ioannou:

Yes.

Hélène Ioannides:

And I think that's a great,